The BMW 335i, 328iX, 328i vs The JCW GP

agranger Jan 4th, 2007 Link

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Z4 coupe. That’s the only car I’ve seen in the past several years that would tempt me away from my MCS.

GSKChicago Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Gabe… I test drove the 335 Coupe. From your knowledge and compliments of both the 328 coupe and the 335 sedan, is it safe to assume the 335 coupe is a great match of both?

I “built” a 335 coupe and after I added all the goodies, etc, it came to a few hundred bucks shy of $50,000! So while I haven’t placed an order… I likely will in the coming months. It just was too much fun to ignore.

Mark H Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Nice review - the new 335 is a great car however in the UK if you add leather it is almost double the price of the GP which makes the GP a real performance bargain! It seems that the UK motoring press love the new 335 and reckon there may not be much point in the forthcoming M3 as the engine is so good. I have to admit I would take a 335 over my GP as an all rounder as noted above but where is the fun in that - save that for when you have the wife and 2 kids!

kelly Jan 4th, 2007 Link

gabinator,

you drove a new Europa?

FrankInMiami Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Gabe, I’ll look forward to your review of the BMW 328i or 328iX station wagons.

FrankInMiami Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Oops my bad. I see you drove the 328iX AWD wagon, but that one is of no real interest to me. What were your impressions of the standard 328i RWD wagon, assuming you had a chance to get acquinted with it?

Paul Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Gabe, nice reviews.

I’m also curious what your thoughts are on a Z4.

R56LVR Jan 4th, 2007 Link

For me there is only one worthy alternative to my full Works S with GP IC and other bits…

The Exige

Lars Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Nice review. I only wish that these prices were the same in Norway. The base price for a 335 Coupe is $140.000. My MCS 2006 cost $70.000

CAAR Jan 4th, 2007 Link

I just set aside the Cooper S for a 328ci. I miss the MINI only when I’m not in the BMW. It is a great car with perfect balance and performance. Also, I get about 26 MPG. Just a bit HIGHER than the S (24.5). I love the car and it fits adults better and I can still leave the clubs in the trunk with out having to leave people out. Only draw back, auto trans. The wife wants to drive it too and could only get it with auto. Not all bad, love teh car.

Thanks for your great work Gabe!

O(=^=)O Capn Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Lars help me out

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=70000&from=NOK&to=USD&submit=Convert

Is that 70,000 USD or Norweigan Krones? The converter shows 70,000 Krone is $11,000 USD? 442,805 Krone is $70,000 USD. 11k or 70k are hard for me to believe.

I’m sorry man if it is the latter.

Coruscation Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Would love to see an m335ix with a 4 wheel drive
system more tuned for sporting advantage than
nannying.

Roundel said at least a 335ix was likely.

Hugo Jan 4th, 2007 Link

FYI, the 335 uses two small, parallel turbos instead of a sequential set up. Also, the forthcoming R56 MCS will incorporate virtually all the same engine technology as the 335 (except for the twin turbos and the obvious difference in displacement/layout). The torque curves are very similar too!

Gabe Jan 4th, 2007 Link

Would love to see an m335ix with a 4 wheel drive
system more tuned for sporting advantage than
nannying.

Why would you want to add weight, complexity and cost to a perfectly balanced rwd car like the 335i? With 50/50 weight distribution and an excellent chassis there’s really no need to drive the front wheels for extra grip in normal situations. Even in a snowy climate a set of good snow tires makes RWD BMWs great winter cars. It’s a set-up I’ve been using for years and I have yet to find a situation I couldn’t easily handle. Now if you lived in a very snowy climate (or in the mountains) I could understand the need for a high performance AWD BMW. Otherwise I don’t see the purpose.

Mark Smith Jan 4th, 2007 Link

I used to own a ‘99 323is and have driven almost every model BMW has made from the 200 to 2005 model year. SNow tires Vs. AWD is a no brainer. Save your money for a good set of snows and stick with the more engaging RWD. The MINI though is not going anywhere soon. I wouldn’t trade my ‘06 MCS for any BMW. Thank god I work for MINI and used to work for BMW. If I didn’ty I wouldn’t be here!

Edge Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Great round-up… the only piece of the puzzle missing seems to be an M3. :)

Doug Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I just traded my WMS tuned ‘06 MCS for a 335i Sedan. OMG, the car is awesome.

I sometimes miss the sound of the supercharger, and the shifting of gears on an open road; but with my move to the DC/BALT area, a steptronic makes more sense and is the best auto I have ever driven.

petsounds Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I see that someone deleted my comment. Sorry that calling this a paid advertisement offended you, but I just call it like I see it. Thanks for the censorship.

Gabe Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I see that someone deleted my comment. Sorry that calling this a paid advertisement offended you, but I just call it like I see it. Thanks for the censorship.

Wow that sounds like an exciting comment but I have no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe your comment was caught by the automated Wordpress spam cops.

DB Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I see that someone deleted my comment. Sorry that calling this a paid advertisement offended you, but I just call it like I see it. Thanks for the censorship.

I’ve been keep a very close eye on all of the spam filters and didn’t see anything else with your username on it.

I will continue to keep an eye out.

Matt Gifford Jan 5th, 2007 Link

petsounds, why don’t you just post the comment again so we can see your criticism?

MattHouston Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Petsounds, probably you are not the only one that thinks that way. While I truly enjoy reading Motoringfile on a daily basis, I can’t help but think, that this is one heck of incredible sales outlet for BMW… And an effective one at that. I would not be surprised if MF has twice the hits of the “official” BMW and MINI webpages in the ‘net.

I admire Gabe for the amount of effort and dedication he has put forth on his site in the past few years and I am sure that there is a fairly good (I don’t want to call it “Lucrative” as I am not going to make affirmation to something I don’t know first hand) and mutually beneficial relationship between him and BMWUSA.

BMW and MINI fully recognize the benefits of using MF as thier “Off the record” and “rumor” communication channel with their ever expanding clientele.

MattHouston Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I am also interested in seeing the deleted comment from Petsounds.

MattHouston Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I see my two prior comments have been deleted as well. Oh well..

MattHouston Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Ignore my previous post… operator error.

Gabe Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I am also interested in seeing the deleted comment from Petsounds.

Me too.

DB Jan 5th, 2007 Link

I can guarantee that no comments have been deleted from MF today. Not only that, but I have checked the spam queue 4 times.

Gabe Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Petsounds, probably you are not the only one that thinks that way. While I truly enjoy reading Motoringfile on a daily basis, I can’t help but think, that this is one heck of incredible sales outlet for BMW… And an effective one at that. I would not be surprised if MF has twice the hits of the “official” BMW and MINI webpages in the ‘net.

I agree - MF is incredibly valuable to MINI and BMW. However I doubt that the site has more daily visits (let alone double) than MINIUSA.com sees. But I truly appreciate the suggestion that it may :)

I admire Gabe for the amount of effort and dedication he has put forth on his site in the past few years and I am sure that there is a fairly good (I don’t want to call it “Lucrative” as I am not going to make affirmation to something I don’t know first hand) and mutually beneficial relationship between him and BMWUSA.

MotoringFile has no monetary relationship with MINI USA or BMW. I can’t be more plain than that. Yes we have sponsors and yes, some of those sponsors are MINI dealers. But neither MINI nor BMW pay us for anything we do. We do not receive free cars for a year (like a certain MINI magazine has) or official accessories. I hope that ends any speculation.

BMW and MINI fully recognize the benefits of using MF as their “Off the record” and “rumor” communication channel with their ever expanding clientele.

I can assure you that we (Db, myself and all the normal MF contributors) are the ones dictating and writing the content on the site… not MINI. And I can also tell you that there are plenty of things on this site that a few in the MINI organization wouldn’t mind seeing removed and wish had never been posted. What we have for next Monday is a good example of this.

Peter Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Gabe, did you notice whether the brakes on the BMWs were any better than the GP’s?

I had a new 325i loaner recently and was immediately struck by how sensitive the brakes were. Was I feeling the affects of the “brake assist” (Dynamic Brake Control) technology in merely normal stopping?

Also, any thoughts on the runflats?

Coruscation Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Why would you want to add weight, complexity
and cost to a perfectly balanced rwd car like the 335i?

Back in the day, the twin turbos and dozens of valves,
not to mention several computers in the 335i would
have been considered ‘too complicated’, too.

I’ve gone from e36 to MINI to Subaru STi.
Depending on tires and camber, the steady state
cornering of all three cars is about the same.

But in real world driving, I can take a slow cautious
entry, wait until I see there’s no marbles,
obstructions, etc, and really accellerate out of a corner and stay more neutral under accelleration than my e36.

The MINI I would enter too fast for comfort and then
hold constant speed through a turn.

The MINI was best for constant speed sharp transitions.

When I test drove the MCS and STi back to back, there
is this one 290 degree upward corkscrew onramp with new
sealing that is usually damp in parts and very slippy.

Enter slow and accellerate, and the MINI spins its
inside wheel something fierce. Enter fast and maintain speed uphill is almost possible, but depending on how wet it is I could be too fast, and too splippery and too late to brake.

Every month I see some RWD spun out on this ramp.

The STi was perfect here.

For many other situations, the lighter RWD 335i would
be fine, perhaps better. My main point is I hope
BMW is awake to customers cross shopping hoontastic
RS4 at one end, and Evos and Subarus with silly
long names: Legacy GT Spec B, WRX STi Spec C Rec II …
priced just below them, and realizes the appeal of
using AWD for sporting advantage, not just soccer
mom piece of mind.

Why would anybody want the weight and comlpexity and
cost of AWD added to the well balanced MINI chassis ?
Count the comments here on the Getrag awd MINI.

petsounds Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Well, I respect you Gabe, but I also consider you a shrewd entrepreneur from what I’ve seen you do with MotoringFile since its beginnings. That isn’t a bad thing, and I wasn’t trying to knock you personally. BMW obviously wants you to showcase their other vehicles — they want people to upgrade from the MINI.

However, I don’t really see how a comparison of the 3-series models versus a MINI is worthy of an article on this MINI-focused blog. It’s apples and oranges. If you had compared the Z4 to the MINI, that would be sensible. Which is why I said I considered this more of an advertisement. “Paid” was perhaps a strong adjective to use, but obviously BMW loaning you these cars benefited both them (for exposure and positive press to a potential market), and you (in order to generate more content). And that kind of close relationship with a news subject always makes me uncomfortable. Then again, I have a pretty “old-school” outlook on news journalism.

As to whether the comment was deleted — I know that I saw my comment on the page after I wrote it. If you say you didn’t delete it, then I believe you. But somehow it disappeared. ?? Internet gnomes I guess.

Gabe Jan 5th, 2007 Link

Why would anybody want the weight and comlpexity and
cost of AWD added to the well balanced MINI chassis ?
Count the comments here on the Getrag awd MINI.

And that’s my point. It makes sense for a car like the MINI. A car that is nose heavy and a little nervous at high speed cornering. A car that is compromised by the very nature of FWD. The RWD 335i has none of these issues.

BTW great comment.

Gabe Jan 5th, 2007 Link

“Paid” was perhaps a strong adjective to use, but obviously BMW loaning you these cars benefited both them (for exposure and positive press to a potential market), and you (in order to generate more content).

Sorry I wasn’t more clear. These cars weren’t loaned to me by BMW but my very good friend who works at the local BMW/MINI dealership.

I don’t really see how a comparison of the 3-series models versus a MINI is worthy of an article on this MINI-focused blog.

I think it’s very important for this site and MINI owners to step out of their normal world from time to time for a sampling of what else is out there. By the number of comments we’ve seen on MotoringFile expressing interest (or saying they’re moving to or from) the BMW 3 series, I’d say this comparison is quite valid.

Lars Jan 6th, 2007 Link

Is that 70,000 USD or Norweigan Krones? The converter shows 70,000 Krone is $11,000 USD? 442,805 Krone is $70,000 USD. 11k or 70k are hard for me to believe.

Sadly I was talking aboutUSD. The price for my MCS in Norwegian Krones is 430,000 and 868.000 is the base price for the 335 Coupe.

Gabe Jan 6th, 2007 Link

you drove a new Europa?

No - I’ve only driven the original from the early 70’s.

Rawhyde Jan 6th, 2007 Link

Great article Gabe!

I test drove a STi when I was shopping for my MINI, but when final decision time came down, I was comparing (cross-shopping) the MCS/JCW, BMW 330Ci (E46), and a lightly used 540i 6 speed Sport (E39). I had already eliminated the IS300 as far too bland and the G35 coupe would have been too difficult to carry a wheelchair bound passenger.

Rawhyde

PS I’m planning for my next car to be the 335i coupe. It’ll be a little while for me because I’m keeping the MINI!

Bill W. Jan 6th, 2007 Link

REALLY intriguing thread…esp. the criticism levied against MotoringFile for acting as a schill for BMW. As someone who is a present BMW owner and does not drive a MINI (but has pined for one for two-plus years now), I found this thread to be spot-on to many of the thought processes that have run through my head. I think Gabe has come about his BMW enthusiasm honestly, as he has said on multiple occasions that he has owned some version of a 3 series for parts of three decades now and occasionally indulges us with tales of his lightly modded 325i wagon.

For me part of the lure of the new MINI project in the first place was the knowledge that BMW engineering would underpin the new car. The primary reason I haven’t bought one yet is my lovely wife’s worries about practicality coupled with her love of the BMW as road trip car extraordinaire. But I almost bought two of them, one as recently as two weeks ago. I’m a MINI and MotoringFile “tourist,” clearly, and proud of it.

More than one poster on this thread has mentioned cross-shopping the MINI with the BMW 3-series and I bet you will find it a lot more common than people might care to admit. The bottom line is, whether you drive a 325i or an MCS, you choose one or the other, or perhaps from among a small number of competitors, (STI, Exige, S4 or RS4) because you care about the time behind the wheel from point A to point B, not just about getting there or looking pretty doing it. Because these are all “drivers’ cars” that allow you to aggressively attack the roads and take in all the aural pleasures and adrenaline you can ring out on your 30-minute commute or on a three hour road trip. Or the track for some of you.

If you didn’t care, you’d buy a Toyota instead. Or maybe a Lexus or Mercedes. Or a Buick…

The next year will see another car purchase for me of some sort and the competition will likely not go much beyond new 328i coupe, R56 MCS, or possibly a lightly used R53 — it’s that darn supercharger I like so much!! Either way seems like you can’t go wrong.

–Bill

LTL M CPE Jan 6th, 2007 Link

I agree with Bill. For those of you who have MINI’s but no Bimmer experience I think you would be surprised as to how many BMW owners now also on a MINI. It was really fun to see a number of Windy City BMW members pick up MINI’s in the first couple years of production. They are all great cars, just different type of fun. If you’re into cars, comparisons are always worthwhile!

Jim

CMMC member since inception
Windy City BMWCCA member for for ten years

like Gabe a 3 series touring, and MCS owner! Plus another fun little BMW.

Craig Jan 6th, 2007 Link

It always amazes me when I hear about what people are trading in for their new MINIs. From BMW:Z3, 3 series, 5 series, 7 series, X5 and X3. From Mercedes: SLK, SL, CLK, ML and S. Audi A4, A6 and TT. Saab C900, NG900, 9000, 93 and 95. Name just about any “high line” European make/model and someone has either traded it for a MINI or cross shopped it with a MINI. Heck, I sold my BMW 740 since I almost never drove it after buying my ‘06 Cooper S.

petsounds Jan 6th, 2007 Link

BMW and the MINI come from somewhat opposite philosophical underpinnings.

Sure, the E30 and E36 BMWs were lightweight and performance-oriented sport sedans. However, each generation after has become more and more bloated with weight. And yes, at nearly 2700 lbs. the MINI is not exactly Kate Moss, but its keen handling and composure, coupled with its diminutive size make it “feel” light and frisky. Which is why my eye is veering more towards the Lotus Elise than the sedate 3-series.

and to Gabe: Apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I said, I respect you and salute all the work you’ve done on MotoringFile.

Bill W. Jan 7th, 2007 Link

Of course the best possible solution is if you don’t have to trade in your BMW, Mercedes or Audi at all :) Sadly I am not in that position.

Friend of mine just sold his E46 330i performance package car (analogous on many fronts to an E36 M3 sedan), and bought instead a new VW Rabbit as daily driver and Lotus Exige as his performance car. Great if you can swing it financially. I spent a lot of time with him checking out Elises and Exiges…not a bad choice for the hardcore performance enthusiast.

He alomost bought a MINI btw as the daily driver — but the Rabbit left him more $$$ to spend on the Exige.

Paul Jan 7th, 2007 Link

I own an 05 MCS Cabrio and recently traded an 06 MCS JCW for the new 07 335i Coupe. I enjoy driving the 335i better than any vehicle I’ve ever driven because it takes me to places I have never been…except in my dreams. I recently had to recharge the battery in my Cabrio for lack of driving it.

Call

David T Jan 12th, 2007 Link

I restored a 2002 and loved the go-kart handling of my race prepared RX-7. The M3 is a great car but I missed the driving experience of my earlier cars so I replaced the M3 with a Works MCS 06 and love the car. The car appeals to those of use who want to be fully engaged in the driving experience. Another interesting point is that for many owners, cost is not the issue. I could easily pay cash for far more expensive cars but after considering an Aston, Cayman, and Corvette, I chose the Mini. Four months later I decided to buy an airplane so I used the money saved on the car to help buy the plane which was a way better result than just having an expensive car.

The “love the car” statement is really saying something since one of the much discussed, poorly designed shock towers mushroomed on the way home from taking delivery at the dealer. Judging from the pictures, the problem was not fixed on the 07 so I will not be buying one of those.

Gabe Jan 12th, 2007 Link

Judging from the pictures, the problem was not fixed on the 07 so I will not be buying one of those.

Based on first hand evidence it actually looks like MINI has designed the shock towers to provide more reinforcement potentially eliminating the problem. The design is similar to the new Rolls Royce shock towers if I remember right.

James Jan 16th, 2007 Link

I had a critical comment “disappear” as well.

Gabe Jan 17th, 2007 Link

Yeah join the crowd. Not sure what happened here.

Anyway if your critical comment was addressed by the other critical comments please repost so we can all see your criticism.